Flipping the Mindset: Max Horenstein's Journey from Airbnb to Land Investing

Brandon: "Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Collective Clicks podcast. This is your host, Brandon Bateman, and today I'm joined by Max Hornstein. Max owns and operates a land investing business. He also helps other people get into the land investing world. I asked him tons of questions about his journey from Airbnb arbitrage to land investing, why he chose that business, what his plans are, and we talk about all kinds of different things from the standpoint of how to keep a business simple and personal development and how that helps you grow your business. So, I'm excited to share this with you. Max, how are you doing today?"

Max: "Good, how are you?"

Brandon: "Fantastic! I'm excited to get to know you and learn about what you're doing. So for anybody listening who doesn’t know anything about you, give us the crash course. Who are you, where do you come from, what do you do?"

Max: "Yeah, crash course. So, essentially, I was selling roofs door-to-door, hated it, wanted to do my own thing, got into real estate through Airbnb, built that up, and eventually transitioned over into land flipping. Saw that right now is a really unique opportunity with not a lot of competition, and that's what I've been focusing on."

Brandon: "That's awesome. I'm curious, why—well, first, are you still doing Airbnb?"

Max: "No, I transitioned totally out."

Brandon: "Yeah, I had a multi-six-figure portfolio, so I was doing arbitrage, and this is what I always tell people: It's not that it doesn't work. I think it's a really good opportunity, but as I'm sure you understand in real estate, I think opportunities come and they go, and there's always a point in time where, like, when you get in, there's the least amount of competition, and like when I got in, around COVID, that area, it was perfect. And now there's just a mass amount of competition. So, my thought process was like, okay, I'm good at sales and marketing, so what if I just take what I'm good at, where I have like a level 9-10 skill set, and apply it to an opportunity vehicle that can match that, right where there's just less competition."

Brandon: "Yeah, that makes sense. So I'm guessing, so in some ways, you could say what you did in Airbnb and in land are more similar to each other than they are different, in the sense that at the time it was less—yeah, less competitive."

Max: "100%, and that's something that took me time to realize. That again, it's not that things don't work, it's that there's a point in time in every opportunity where it's like, hey, this is actually a good time to get in. And then, like not to crap on wholesalers, but like when you're wholesaling now, it's like in the 80s, it's like obviously, it's a lot harder now. And so, to win in those environments, you have to have great leadership abilities, you need to be able to do market spend, a lot of money, etc. But if you can get in earlier, you can establish yourself and build a moat, and protect yourself when more competition eventually comes in."

Brandon: "Yeah, I'm totally with you. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, that's a well-seasoned wholesaler, he's probably been doing it for eight years, nine years, something like that. He was giving some advice to some people, like newer getting into the wholesaling space, and they were asking, 'Well, how much money did you have when you started your wholesaling business? How much did you have to put out?' And he said the answer, and everybody was like mind-blown, like how did you get it started with that little money? But then the reality of the situation that everybody knew was like, if that same person with that same amount of money today were trying to start that company, they probably wouldn't succeed."

Max: "Yeah, because then you could. His first year, he did a million dollars in revenue from $50,000 advertising spend."

Brandon: "Yeah, that's crazy. Don't do that these days. Like, not under normal conditions, right? That's like the absolute best of the best. So, it's so different. So, is it still a viable business model? I'd say it absolutely is, but not like you can just—it's a lot of the people who have the really successful businesses in that space today, they built it when they built it, and then now they can sustain."

Max: "Which, yeah, I think. Keep in mind again, it's like it—like everything works. It's not like, 'Oh, like this doesn't work anymore.' It's like, no, it works. It's just, it works differently now. Like to compare with Airbnb, like when I got in, you could just throw up a listing and have terrible photos and like no interior decorating, and like it would crush. But now, because a lot of competition, right? Guests care about those type of things like, 'Oh, I want the best blah blah blah blah blah,' and it's like you have to adapt with the times. So again, it just depends. Like when you're in an opportunity vehicle, if you're seeking a new one, you should think like, okay, like, with what's out there right now, like, where am I going to have an unfair advantage, right? Like if wholesalers took their skills—like listen, wholesale deals are way harder than land deals. If all wholesalers started doing land, even though I'm going to give myself more competition, dude, they would just make so much more money. They're just like, it's just—it's so much easier to get those deals. There's like no emotion attached to it. It's completely, completely different."

Brandon: "Sure, that makes sense. Sorry to go down this rabbit hole a little bit, but here's what I'm thinking. I want you to tell me why I'm wrong, and I don't know a lot about the industry that you came from. I don't know a lot about the arbitrage, although I have—how this might be true. What I'm thinking is, yes, that's what you choose to go after, but there's some advantage to having a business that's built up in a certain place, right? So, let's just say I started a wholesaling company 10 years ago, and then now it's a lot more competitive. I've got a working operation, it's making me money right now, it's good, like no reason to like abandon that and go somewhere else because I'm in a—because I'm in a good spot, right? Yes. Did something—two questions—did something happen in the Airbnb arbitrage space that was beyond that where it just got like insanely difficult? And the follow-up question to that is, like, what do you plan on doing with land investing, let's just say it does get really competitive? Is your goal a business that's—that's like, while it's easy, build the business and get all the found—down, and then as it gets harder, then you're just getting better, but you're on the top? Or is—is the plan to then find another niche that's less—like, what's—what's your—that's a really good question."

Max: "So first of all, I would acknowledge, you said—I think you're 100% correct. Like, obviously, if you have something that's working amazingly well, like it would be very dumb to just jump, but that's—like, a whole bag of worms, right? It's like, well, maybe you get to a certain level, and to expand, you realize, like, maybe it'd be simpler to bolt on this sex business. For me, what it was with Airbnb, it's not that it's like—it became impossible. It was just that the changes that I needed to make and at the level that I was at to—I think really become a great operator of the new conditions, there was things that I just—pally, like, didn't want to do in the business. The thing about Airbnb arbitrage, like what most people don't understand, is that, like, 'Oh, it's real estate.' It's like, it's actually really hospitality. That's what it really is. Like, you're in the hospitality game, and then it's like, combined with real estate. And to be frank, like, I hate hospitality. Like, I totally hate—I did that when I was younger. I like sales, marketing, I like making money, and so I did it as an opportunity to make money. And then when I realize, like, 'All right, like, this is getting competitive in a way where I'm going to need to become amazing at interior design, I'm going to have to like truly love hospitality to be a great operator,' I'm like, 'That's not what I enjoy. That's not what my skill set is.' It's time for me to pivot, right? And like, again, like this is a very personal decision for people because there's some people who like—and I've talked to them—like, 'Man, I love hospitality. I love interior design.' Like, well, I totally don't. So if you love that, you go do that. But you have to understand, like, who you are and what you enjoy, where your skill sets line. Okay, so that's what made me pivot. In

terms of land, what I see, candidly, I'll probably run this for 3 to 5 years as long as I can, and then probably shift more towards, like, investing. So, instead of doing my own flips, investing other people's, and then maybe doing larger value-add projects based on what I know about myself. I've had multiple businesses. It's something that I enjoy being able to do that. And so my goal is to build it in a way where if I do see another opportunity, that I can strike, right? But I see land investing as something that's a great cash flow vehicle. And so the way that I think about a lot of these opportunities, and obviously there's a variation to this, the way I see Airbnb, land, wholesaling, stuff like that, I call them level one opportunities, right? They're good cash flow vehicles where you can make a lot of money, and then you get to a point where you have the choice as an operator to decide, 'Do I want to make this the only thing that I do and just, you know, grow it to the moon?' Or do I want to take the money that I'm using and go after more difficult business opportunities that take more cash? Right. For me, personally, I will probably go do more difficult stuff because I like having novelty, and that's something I know about myself."

Brandon: "Yeah, that's fair. That—that's really fascinating. So, what is it about your personality that makes a land flipping business perfect?"

Max: "I mean, like I said, it—dude, it's really easy. Like, the closing deals is like—it's really, really easy. I've done much more complicated sales, high-ticket sales. Getting someone to sell a piece of real estate that they haven't used in decades, that they don't have any emotional attachment to—it's not that hard, right? Like, there's no big, like, mumbo jumbo negotiation of, like, convincing them. This is what I was saying, like, if you have the skill to close someone on a house wholesaling deal, which is going to be much more difficult, you—you just crush in land, you know what I mean? So for me, having the sales background that I do, and then realizing, like, like, this is just an easier sale. And like, this is the truth—it's an easier sale because you're making a better offer, right? Alex talks about, like, the offer is king, right? Well, think about the offer. If I go to someone, I'll give you an example of a deal—it was a buy for—he sold for 120. When that seller bought it, he bought it decades ago, so he probably spent like 20 grand on it. Well, if I offer him 50, and he nets 30, that's an amazing offer for him, and there's still enough room for me to make money on the deal, right? So like, I'm creating win-win scenarios, and I can do that just because the majority of people that own land, they're older, right? And they bought it so long ago. And so like, I think this is a thing that people, like, don't talk about. It's like, yeah, you can be really good at sales, but like, if you have something that you're selling, that's just easier to sell, or marketing is amazing, like, the whole thing is going to be smoother, right? If you have an amazing offer, it's easier to sell. I think land is an amazing offer."

Brandon: "Yeah, that's super fair. That makes sense. Well, let's talk about some—let's put some numbers to these things, Max. I'd love to learn, like, more of how your business operates, like, straight from the top to the bottom of the funnel. So, starting top funnel—marketing, what do you do?"

Max: "Direct mail. Straight direct mail. So I've done cold texting. This is my opinion on it. I think it works if you have a big team and you have people to sort through everything, but for me, my idea is like, let me be as efficient as I can, and I want the highest quality leads possible. So I do direct mail. I do blind offers."

Brandon: "Okay, okay. Obviously, what that's going to do, it's going to help me qualify on the front end, right?"

Max: "Alright. And then from there, I'm running a two-call close sequence, okay? So they come in, we have PatLive, which is a call center, I'm sure viewers know about that. If it's a qualified lead, it moves to me. I take the acquisition calls. I do a discovery call, then I do an offer call. What I found—I found this across industries—I don't do a one-call close because I find that splitting it up builds more trust and it builds anticipation. And like, what I'm trying to do with these people is like, I want to get them involved and invested, right? I want to be the driver's seat. And so if I split it up into two calls, what I find is, like, there's something that goes on—oh, like, 'Am I going to get this? Are they going to decide maybe they don't want to do this?' Like, it's just kind of part of the sales process. So that's what I do. I acquire the deal. I use CV funding to purchase it, and then my exit strategy, I'm like 50/50, double close versus actual flips. And then I don't do my own dispo in-house. I always use Realtors. My thought process behind that is like, why would I go build a giant dispo team when I can find someone who's a local land expert to sell it for me, and then I could focus my time on getting more deals?"

Brandon: "Based on what you're saying, it sounds like obviously with various supporting elements, it sounds like you're mostly doing this yourself, yeah?"

Max: "Yeah, yeah. I have a VA."

Brandon: "Yeah, okay. VA to scrub the data, right, to that. But I handle the acquisition, right? So like, the VA does like everything else besides like the acquisitions. And I think that's one of the biggest benefits to this, is like—I might go on a little bit of a rant, but a lot of people when they hire VAs, one of the first things they try and outsource is acquisitions. I think that is literally the worst possible idea, especially when you outsource someone overseas. It's like, dude, like, you can make 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 grand on a deal. Why would you put that in the hands of someone and pay them two grand a month when their living expenses are like 500 and expect them to be a killer? Like, why not either hire a US-based person or why not do it yourself? It's one of the most valuable, if not the most valuable position the business. I would say that should be the last thing you outsource. Even if you suck at sales, like, either learn to get good at sales, or you need to have big money to be able to hire someone to do it. So, I'm good at sales. I'm like, 'Why would I not take the calls?' Like, that would be stupid, you know what I mean?"

Brandon: "No, that—that makes sense. I like, I don't know if you've read Dan Martell's book 'Buy Back Your Time.' Basically splits things into different quadrants. Ying—some of the details—basically talks about how like you have your income-producing activities, yep, and you create this matrix, right? Does it—does it make me money, or does it not? And do I like it, or do I not? Does it give me energy, or does it not? Right? So, so what you're talking about is this is like a—it makes me money activity. Then maybe it gives you energy, maybe it doesn't. But like, if it's in that category, that's not the first thing you hire out. Yeah, hire out like the list—creating, or maybe even like lead follow-up or something like that, right? Like, reactivating old leads in the CRM, or like, you outsource like the initial touch with the lead to Pat Live, for example. And then at some point, yes, you get rid of that—like, high, high earning capability role that you're in, that—that's very important, even if you love it, because that was necessary to grow your business to a certain point, if that's what you want to do. But there's—there's where you just love this, and and you just go at it on—"

Max: "I—I—I be the first to say that building a team is not for everybody. It's a—it's a lot. It's a lot. It—it gets worse before it gets better, that's for sure."

Brandon: "100%. Yeah, someone—someone wise once told me, if you—if you want to—to be really happy with your business, either keep it very, very small or make it very, very big, and everything in between kind of sucks. And that's definitely been my experience."

Max: "Yeah. I just want to—T—I think it's important, I think a lot of people, they—they outsource things that are really important that they don't like doing too—like, I—I was guilty of that. Like, I—I'm very good at sales, but like

, when you're doing it day in, day out, like, you get burnt out, and I've had other companies that have ran, like, in the info space, that are like, very just heavy sales and marketing, and I outsourced too quickly, got like too many closers on when I should have been the one on the calls, right? And that really hurt. And so when I built the land business, I was like, 'Hey, listen. I'm going to stay on the calls for as long as humanly possible because that's what the business requires of me.' And that's where my core skill set lies. And like, the other thing I think people don't realize too is, it's like, if you suck at sales and you go hire an acquisition person, how are you going to train them and manage them? Like, how can you set proper KPIs if you haven't done it, you know what I mean? It's the hardest—like chicken or egg scenario, because like, you're right, unless you can hire the—the self-sufficient salesperson, which turns out is more like a sales director, and turns out that person doesn't want to work for you because they want to do something for them somewhere else, right? So, you're in this weird position where, like, I need a level of talent that exceeds what I can attract, unless—and fill the gap myself until I can grow to the point where I can attract that talent."

Brandon: "And yeah, yeah, it's a—it's a—I don't know how anybody does it, to be honest. But it's a hard—it's a hard place to be as a business, like making—like first hires for skills that you don't have."

Max: "100%. Yeah, but like, I think that's like—again, I—this is where people get caught up where it's—like, most people at the size, like, they're not that big where like, they even should be bringing in someone like that because they have to give too much away to that person. Like, they might want some ridiculous 20% or comp, or something crazy, where it's like, like, dude, just—just learn the core skill set enough at least where, if you bring in a rep, they can perform at 70, 80% of what you do, and you just backtrack the stats, right? Like, you should know, okay, if I close this many leads, how many deals am I going to get, etc. If I bring in someone to perform 70% of what I do, then the business will run smoothly. And then you just have to accept that, like, hey, this is where they need to go, right? And then you need to be aggressive. Like, when you hire salespeople, my plan is like, you always hire two, and then usually, just fire one. Like, and it takes time, and like, you need to have a very built-out filtration process of hiring. Like, it's not easy to hire salespeople. There's a ton of turnover. But like, again, this goes back to, like, I think you have to get good in sales because salespeople need a leader, right? They need to have something they can look up to and respect. And if, like, you're like, like, you like, suck at sales and try to build a sales team, like, it's going to go to—I don't know if I can curse on this, but it's not going to go well. So, I think it's important that everyone learns that fundamental skill set, and then eventually builds a team on top of that."

Brandon: "Yeah, I have—right now, I have the same person managing—that manages my marketing managing my sales team."

Max: "Really?"

Brandon: "And never done sales before, and believe it or not, under him, the team performs very, very well. He has another first sales, and you know what? I think the trick is, like, if you're a really good leader, you work like these salespeople respect him because he's an excellent leader, but he's not anybody with any sales experience. He couldn't close the sales, but he—but he's a really good sales manager. So, it's—it's interesting. But I think most people in that scenario, they don't have the leadership experience either."

Max: "Okay, that's—yeah, you—that—that is huge. That's, like, so important to understand that, like, being good at sales is different than being a great sales leader. And like, that's something I had to learn as well, the hard way. Like, I'm a chiller. Like, I can close a ton of stuff, but sales—they're two fundamentally different skill sets. Think about it. An amazing salesperson is often selfish in their interests, right? Not like they're a bad person, but like, it is a selfish type of thing. 'I'm going to close my deals as possible,' etc. Right? A sales leader is the exact opposite. They're selfless. It's not about them; it's about their reps, right? It's a completely different skill set. And so, it's often been said that, like, the best sales manager—it's actually probably not the top person on your team—be like the second or the third, right? So, that makes sense, like, if you have someone in your company who knows how to lead and manage, that they could do that, right? But they have to learn that skill, and I would say like, that's probably the hardest skill of all, to learn is how to lead and manage people."

Brandon: "Yeah, I—I completely agree with you, but it—it sounds like the way it comes out is, 'I can't teach my salespeople. I can't train them up,' or whatever, but like, if the end of the day, if you hire the right people and you lead them right, like, you'd be surprised what they—what a lot of people are capable of, a lot more than we—than we might think. So, yeah, that—that's fascinating. Jumping back to like what we were talking about just before though. So, so this is like—your preference is for you to be doing a lot of those more income-producing activities in the business, and it sounds like you're outsourcing some of the—some of the, for lack of a better term, 'dirty work' that you just don't want to do. What are you able to produce under that situation? Like, how far have you pushed that, and—and also follow-up question, what percentage of what you could produce do you feel like you are producing? Like, is that like, 'I'm producing because I'm maxed out, and my calendar is full all day, every day of sales calls,' or is that like, 'I'm still easing this, and I think I can make it farther before I hire a sales person?' That's great."

Max: "Yeah, we're doing about 30-50k a month, and I think I could take it way further. I work like five, 10 hours a week. Like, it's not that much time. Now, the reason I can do this is, number one, I've outsourced the most time-consuming, lowest revenue-producing tasks, right? Like data scrubbing, stuff like that, or like running due diligence on properties, things that, like, I don't need to do. So, that helps a ton. Okay, but I think the real secret of this is the way that I market because the way that you market affects the way you sell, right? Because I'm doing blind offers, and I'm getting the highest quality leads, and I would imagine that's similar when you do PPC, where you're getting inbound traffic, right? Like, I—I don't need to spend hours marketing or, like, cold calling or stuff like that because the conversations I'm having are people that are qualifying, right? That cuts down on the time a ton. I would say I could probably double if I wanted, on my own, right? It's not like I'm, like, drowning in stuff, but right now, like, I'm good with where I'm at. I'm holding it, and yeah, we'll just take it from there."

Brandon: "Okay, yeah, and that's—that's fantastic. It's impressive. It's a nice—it's a nice, nice business. Okay, very cool. So, but you're—but you're happy with that. You don't—you don't have a desire to—to triple down on your—your marketing and push that volume to the max."

Max: "Well, and part of this is probably also that you're building the—the other business too, correct?"

Brandon: "Yeah, 100%."

Max: "So, so there's kind of like—like, I imagine when you say you're working—I forgot what you said, 10 or 15 hours a week or something like that—that's on that business, and then you have the other business."

Brandon: "Yeah, yeah. So, I'm helping people do this. I'm not here to—like, pitch, so I'm not going to go like super deep into that, but the info side of this, right, like helping people do that, that takes a significant amount of time. And to me, that's more of, like, a passion. Like, I really like helping people. And so I'm able to do that. And so the way that I see it is like, well, I have a skill that I can make 30-50k a month

on top of, and I could scale that to the moon, obviously, or I could show other people how to do that, right? And to me, that's more fulfilling. And like, long term, for where I want to be in a few decades, that's more alignment. So, that's what takes up the majority of my time, is actually helping people do that, right? And then my own business can become a testing ground, where I can try new things and then help others with theirs."

Brandon: "So, where do you want to be in 20 years? Deep—that's a—that's a great question to—to think about deeply."

Max: "Ey, this is like totally, like, probably like, that come from left field. Very, very, very long term, I'd like to be in personal development. Like, that's what I really, really enjoy, right? Think like Tony Robbins stuff like that. With that being said though, obviously, like as a niche, personal development is like, you're being like a mindset coach, life coach, like, that—that does not work."

Brandon: "And yeah, it does not work unless you have a ton of traffic, right? Like, you look at Rob Dial, people like that. Part of the reason, like, they're able to do that is because they have such a big audience. So, like, very, very long term, my idea is this is like, if I can help people right now with tangible skill sets of, like, making money, right? Like, I know how to flip land. I can help you do the same thing, right? I think, in 10, 20 years, I can build like a large enough audience that I can start talking more about the stuff that, like, I'm truly, like, deeply passionate about, which is more mindset, personal development. But for that to work as a business, like, you have to have an insane amount of traffic. I imagine I would need like millions of followers. So, that's super long term, and I've got a long way to go. But that—that's the dream, that's the vision."

Brandon: "Alright, then I'm gonna pull an audible on you, Max. We're done—we're done talking about land investing, alright? You're going to talk about what you love to talk about right now. Yeah, I think that'll benefit people, if you—yeah, if you had one—one thing to share, that—that you think could have the most power from a personal development standpoint, with the—the people listening to this, what would it be?"

Max: "Yeah, dude, that's really tough. There's—there's a lot of things. I'm gonna have to pick something on my brain. I—yeah, that—that—that's like so hard. I—I think, one of the—so, not to get like super woo, but this is something I had a mentor tell me, and like, this was super helpful. So, there was a point in my career where I'm making a ton of money, I had a lot of nice things, I'm living like a million-dollar penthouse in Miami, like—like, crazy, like, cool stuff, making a lot—a lot of money. And I remember talking to my mentor, and he was like, 'If you can't be grateful for what you have now, like, you'll never be grateful for the things that you want when you get them.' And I know, like, gratitude is thrown around. I'm not going to, like, be like spiritual on this, but what I recognized—an issue that I had in previous businesses—is that I was in such a rush to get to a certain destination, right? Like, a lack of gratitude. It's like, wow, like, I'm—I'm this young, I'm making a ton of money, I have a very nice life, I have a team, etc., that it caused me to ignore—I would call them like check engine lights. And so, imagine if you're driving a car, check engine lights are on, you're like, 'I just got to get to—I got to get to where I'm going.' You just slam on the gas, like, you crash the car, you know what I mean? If I could have been more grateful in those times, like, wow, this is really amazing, and still had the drive to go where I want to go, I could have slowed down and learned the lessons that I need to learn and take to the mechanic shop, fix the car, and it would have gone more smoothly. Now, with that being said, I think everything happens for a reason, and even though I had those challenges, they led me to where I am now, and so I'm grateful for that. But I think if people can be more grateful for where they're currently at and still be hungry to get to where they want to go, I think they'll end up being more successful as entrepreneurs, especially like me and you, people listening who are like very driven, we're very aggressive, right? Like, we want to hit big numbers. It's very easy to get caught up in, like, not celebrating wins, not being grateful, and just pushing forward. But the problem is, like, when you do that, and you don't take the time to be grateful, what ends up happening is usually, people rush, right? And if you rush, you make poor decisions. Okay, if you make poor decisions, you get poor outcomes. When we get poor outcomes, bad things happen, right? As people that are very driven, right? If we could take a little more time—I'm not saying to slow down, but I'm saying, hey, like, let's be grateful for where we are compared to where we used to be—the business would run more smoothly. What's that saying, right? Like, slow is smooth, smooth is fast. It's the same idea, right? And so, like, what I would say, specifically, like when I was running an info business, I had lots of check engine lights, specifically with, like, just blasting ads. I spend, you know, 50 grand a month on TikTok ads, and like, the team I had the time was not performing as well as I needed to, the sales team, right? But I was like, 'More ads, more ads, more ads. Drive, drive, drive. Like, I want to get to a million a month. Like, let's go, let's go, let's go.' Whereas if I could be like, 'Hey, whoa, like, dude, you're—you're doing like, 188k cash, 200k cash a month. Like, that's really good. Like, slow down. Let's build the best possible thing we can here,' right? It would have been a lot easier. So like, that—that's the point because like, when you're—I think people, the—the podcast reson—resonate with this. Like, when you're surrounded by people that are doing four, 500, a million dollars a month, and you see these people, like, like, wow, this is tangible. Like, I could actually achieve that level of success, you compare yourself to them, which I think is good, actually, because it gives you something to shoot for, but the problem is, like, if you start rushing, it's like, dude, like, they're where they are because of the time, the skill sets, a lot of other factors that they put in, like, you're going to have your own journey, it's going to take your own amount of time, like, stop trying to rush. Like, you can get there, but it's not going to happen in a year. Like, that—not a million a month. That takes some time unless you, like, are a unicorn. But for most people, it takes time. Okay."

Brandon: "Yeah, that's—that's actually—let me tell you some random thoughts that come through my mind, just like—this is going to be—but—but the first thing I think is, like, is this a continuum? Like, is it like you can grow slow, or you can grow fast, and it's just for everybody. Then what it sounded like you're on some—client at the end there is, some people have an ability to go faster than others. It's like that concept of your business can't outgrow you as a person. You're like, if—if you're trying to get the business to that million dollars a month mark, but you're not the kind of person that runs a—a month business, and you're just trying to brute force your way there, you're not going to make it there. But you wait for you to grow there, then—then you can—you could always look at someone else who grew—grow—grw their business to a million dollars a month a lot faster than that, but maybe they were already that kind of person who can run that business before and—"

Max: "Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. And like, to tie this all back in, I think another—like, key lesson to takeaway is that, like, we all have our own journey in terms of how long it's going to take us, where we go, right? And like, horrible things can happen to you, but they happen for a reason. Like, if you want to become the type of person who can build a business to that level, like, you got to become that type of person. And like, it's—it I can't say for you, like, 'Oh, you're going to go through this, you're going to go

through that.' Like, I don't know. We all have our own different journey. Some people are born with innate gifts, or like, I had people that I looked up to that I think they hit a million a month in like two years, but they had things they didn't had, like, that's okay. And so again, like, I go back to, like, I think it's okay to compare yourself to others because they give you something to shoot for, but like, you can't get bogged down in that because it's like, it's irrelevant. It's like, you're—you're not them. And so, you talk about, well, you can go slow, you can go fast. It's like, yes, it's true, but I think it also, like, it switches because there's points in time where, like, if it feels really hard, maybe you should slow down. If things are going super smooth, like, why not go as fast as you possibly can, right? I don't think there's anything wrong with going fast. I think there's a problem when you rush because when you rush, that's implying that you're making decisions that are not well thought out, right? Like, that—like, the thing that switched for me is, I said, I used to really value, like, 'Hey, I make fast decisions, very fast decisions,' which helped me out at certain stages. Now, I value making good decisions. That's different."

Brandon: "I'm sorry, was the last part you said."

Max: "No, what I was saying is, yeah, I now value more making good decisions instead of making fast decisions. There's a big difference there, and somebody who's very skilled might be able to make equal quality decisions to you but faster, but main thing is, yeah, you got—yeah, you gotta do it right, and if that takes—it's going to take longer."

Brandon: "Yeah, that—that's super fair. I like what you said—slow is—slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and maybe I didn't—not—I didn't, although it—it feels almost like one of those things that's said so much that like, the original person who said it, nobody knows."

Max: "Yeah, we don't even know who it is. I—I don't know. I'd have to look it up. But that's—yeah, that—that's awesome advice. Thank you for—for taking the time to—to do this today, Max. Any parting words of wisdom before we wrap this thing up?"

Max: "No, have fun, scale, sell hard, make a lot of money. That's what to do. Help people."

Brandon: "Yeah, thank you, Max. I appreciate you. And for everybody else listening, I will see you next week."

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